What helps?

[Cordellia Amethyste Rose]

Now that we've had some time to think about this & discuss it, let's start creating a plan to help.  Let's try and make a list that we can refer to & refer others to.  Here's my question:

What helps? 

Not just what helps you stop daydreaming.  This is a condition we need to learn to live with. 

What helps in any way possible?  Interpret that in every way possible, and be as specific as possible. 

Some ways you can think of it:

What helps make your life better?

What helps you feel like you’re living a more fulfilling life?

What helps you feel like you’re in control?

What helps you daydream less & what helps you daydream more?

What makes your daydreams more productive?

What makes your daydreams feel less productive?

When do you leave your daydreams feeling better & more charged?

What makes them leave you feeling more sluggish?

What helps you feel stronger?

What helps you feel safer?

What helps you feel more confident?

Let’s act like we’re compiling a list of things to tell new people who’re just figuring out they’re going through this & are not sure what to do.  What advice would you give them to help them feel more empowered?

[Pseudo Life]

Sarah,

 

I connect with much of your story.  I've been reflecting a lot of my  mental health and daydreaming.  I started very very young as well.  We moved a lot, I 12 schools in 12 years.  When things were tough, I daydreamed, creating fantasy where I was not alone and often I was accompanied by strong paternal and maternal figures who loved me and were proud of me.  I was an excellent student and my parents were proud of me, but there wasn't a lot of emotional connection.  Moving was hard .  Some moves, I would decide I was going to really be this friendly extroverted person and would join every club and activities.  Other moves, were so painful,I would slip into introversion and had few friends.

 

During courtship, I was living far from my fiance.  We wrote every day and saw each during summers and school breaks.  Fantasy was full blown and after marriage, reality was a wake up call.  I also had religious experiences which now I question whether they were part of the daydreaming. 

 

I daydreamed a lot when my kids were small and school age.  My marriage was not what I expected. I kept trying and one way to get through it was daydreaming.  I have always had an active imagination and could create scenarios and characters in my head.   I also could easily fall into a euphoric trance.  Seven years of therapy which resulted in repressed memories, incest, Dissociative Identity disorder, depression and anxiety.  This daydreaming (which I perhaps I should call nightmaring) was really destructive.  My therapist was also caught up in this - "I wasn't trying hard enough or I would have been able to remember more". I look back and see how destructive this was and I have a hard time forgiving myself for severing ties with my parents.  Fortunately I never confronted them, and was able to reconnect before the passed.

 

I've been diagnosed Bi-Polar.  I take a number of meds which help. I see psychiatrist every other week.  he said daydreaming was okay.  He is trying to get me to feel empowered and not so dependent on the emotions of others.

 

Looking back, I realize the daydreaming wasn't the problem.  It was not recognizing it for what it is, and kettubg others twist it into something else.  I am still coming to terms with the seven to ten years of pain and suffering because of the DID therapy.  The Bi-Polar diagnosis is very helpful because I can now see some of the destructive stuff I did to feed the anxiety, particularly in work relationships. I have to be very very careful about my enthusiasm and doing things 150 percent.

 

My biggest struggle right now is trying to come to terms when I felt God was speaking to me.  Sounds crazy now but I really thought it was spiritual answers.  How do you trust that inner, small voice again.

 

for what it is worth

 

Sarah E Rosenthal said:

Hi All,

This is my first post on Wild Minds. I'm so grateful to have found you all!

My daydreaming is both a psychological habit that I use to fulfill personal needs  as well a symptom of a psychiatric disorder that I need to take medicine for. Here is a little of my story.id

My excessive daydreaming started when I was 11. At the time, life was difficult and I simultaneously learned to isolate myself in my room and fantasize. I first sought help at the age of 14 but noone took it seriously that I was daydreaming and pacing for hours and hours a day until I was 21 or 22. By that time I had been diagnosed as bipolay.

Finally, a psychiatrist realized that just behavior modification alone didn't stop my daydreaming. He suggested an antipsychotic, and for the first time in more than a decade I could do an activity for half an hour without needing to daydream. I felt like the constant pull into a daydream that I could never resist, no matter where I was, was weakened incredibly. I was able to do many activities I couldn't before because I could step away from daydreaming more easily for periods of time. When the daydreams did pull at me while I was in public, it was easier to refocus and come back down to reality.

My diagnosis was changed to schizoaffective because I have both Bipolar symptoms and daydreaming symptoms. My excessive daydreaming, often combined with pacing, hand movements, or vocal noises/mouthing words is considered to be a psychotic symptom by my psychiatrist. However, I don't have "traditional" psychosis in that I don't hear any voices, and I always know that my fantasies are not real.

HOWEVER, the daydreaming didn't by any means stop completely with medication. And even with the medication, I knew that I daydreamed more when I was stressed or my mood was off. So my psychiatrist encouraged me to continue to look for behavioral ways to daydream less. I have found a number of things that help. I definately find it easier to focus on reality around other people, so just filling my schedule helps. Anything to destress myself definately helps (meditation, a shower, you name it). And working on my emotional issues with a counselor, especially on my difficulties with real interpersonal relationships helps overall. The strangest thing is that I began a 12-step program and when I am doing well with that I seem to fantasize less.

My psychiatrist has suggested that my daydreaming behaviors are a combination of both psychological factors (like a need to escape) and psychotic tendencies that are more biological, and that is the view that makes the most sense to me today. I DO NOT believe that daydreaming is a psychotic symptom or a psychiatric symptom for everyone. I think maybe for some people its a psychologial habit, some people its a psychiatric symptom, and other people (like me) its a combination of both.

 

Thanks for letting me share, I look forward to reading all of the advice you guys have to share as I spend more time on the site! Thanks

[Patty]

I had a scathingly brilliant idea - sorry huge fan of The Trouble with angels.  I know, people under 45 are like 'The trouble with what?'  : )  Anyway, I quit smoking years ago using Allen Carr's method http://allencarr.com/ and I wondered if we could possibly use that method to quit daydreaming?   Its a popular method among entertainers, Ellen DeGeneres, Richard Branson, David Sedaris, etc used it. 

The method is in a nutshell that you change your mind that you don't want to smoke anymore.   If you don't want to smoke, you don't need to use willpower, you just quit and you're happy.  Its a long shot for sure, but I just have an idea and wondered if maybe I could try that method in order to quit daydreaming.   I might give it a shot.  The problem is that I want to daydream way more than I wanted to smoke and its not nearly as harmful.  But, whatever, I'll try it, just wondered if anyone else on here quit using his method and what they thought about my idea.

[Em]

I usually stand up and start pacing around. My daydreams are usually triggered by an exciting thought... any exciting thought. I can focus in only certain situations enough to not daydream. I take tests extremely well because I can lose myself in the test. I can paint really well because I can lose myself in the painting. I can also lose myself in conversation. But I can't completely focus on open reality. There's always some specific interesting thing that tractor beams my attention toward it and away from the general. Maybe I just don't feel comfortable with things that are not focused.

Will said:

Also, and this is something that I think might be key.... What do you notice happens right before the onset of a daydream (preferably a full-blown episode)? How closely have you been able to pay attention to the moments leading up to it? Specifically, what is it that you notice happening, both with thoughts and feelings? I'll share my description, but I want to hold off and first hear yours :) My hunch is that it should be similar for all of us and so I don't want to ruin it. If you haven't ever made the effort to observe this period of time, it's a little tricky... but definitely worth the insight :

[Morgan Everett]

I know exactly what you mean. Since my childhood i have been extremely distant. So distant, that any people who attempt to speak to me scare me out of it then i go right back in. Every minute of every day seems to be spent doing this.

Cordellia Amethyste Rose said:

It's hard to explain, but there's not a moment that I drift off to daydream. I'm walking around in a CONSTANT state of daydream & ONLY do external activities while daydreaming. Pulling myself out to think about something else is very difficult & only lasts for a few seconds. I'm constantly (as in every single minute) drifting right back. I'm daydreaming while doing this. That other world is always in the background & taking up the majority of my brainpower. On top of that, when I'm lying around I'll just daydream. I lie down to daydream for several hours a day, here & there. There are periods of external inspiration that will distract me out of it, and they feel SO GOOD.....but they're very short-lived. The only things I can do are the things that I can do while daydreaming. Consequently I'm only ever working at a small fraction of my capabilities. That's why it takes me so long to accomplish anything & I still have mail that has gone unopened for years, for example. Make sense? It's hard to explain. I've yet to meet anyone who has it this bad, at least so it seems.

Will said:

Also, and this is something that I think might be key.... What do you notice happens right before the onset of a daydream (preferably a full-blown episode)? How closely have you been able to pay attention to the moments leading up to it? Specifically, what is it that you notice happening, both with thoughts and feelings? I'll share my description, but I want to hold off and first hear yours :) My hunch is that it should be similar for all of us and so I don't want to ruin it. If you haven't ever made the effort to observe this period of time, it's a little tricky... but definitely worth the insight :

[Em]

1. What helps make your life better?

- Any thing that helps me be more rounded... skill building activities, hanging out with friends, career building, grooming, and really anything I can see tangible gains from.

2. What helps you feel life you're living a more fulfilling life?

-When I feel like I'm actively helping people work through their problems. I have to feel like I'm a leader and a positive force in the universe.

3.What helps you feel like you're in control?

-When I have more of an awareness and knowledge about the subject at hand. I like to know as many perspectives on an issue as possible.

4.What helps you daydream less?

-Being in public as well as being engaged in hyper-focused real life activities such as research, painting, and conversations (with real people.)

5.What helps you daydream more?

-This is twofold (maybe threefold). If I get inspired to do something this will send me into daydreams about execution and completion of the thing I want to do. But also, if I'm alone/lonely or anxious I tend to daydream more.

6.What makes your daydreams more productive?

-They are more productive when they help me figure out actions I'm going to take in real life. I can plan for things and set up different scenarios to give myself a better idea of how to handle certain situations.

7.What makes your daydreams less productive?

- When they are a repeat of the same scenario over and over again. Sometimes I get obsessed with certain daydreams and I can run over the same ground for years. Also, when I daydream about scary things and things happening to me and my loved ones that I can't control. I've been kept up many a night by my daydreams of being buried in a box under ground and what it would feel like to know that there was nothing I can do about it. I hate putting myself in these mindsets because the panic is real even though the situation is not.

8. When do you leave your daydreams felling better and more charged?

- Whenever I'm thinking about things that I can/will actually do in real life. I'm going to be a teacher, so I fantasize about running through different lesson plans and how I'm going to answer questions for students and help them understand concepts. These daydreams really get my wheels turning.

9. What makes you leave them feeling more sluggish?

-When I run through scenarios with people that are only acquaintances of mine. I have so much fun talking to them because I know a lot of interesting people from my classes, but it annoys me because it's not real. But I also know that I could potentially spend time with them in life. But for some reason, I'm reluctant to do so. But these can be quite draining because I do often run over the same ground in these conversation as well. I make minor changes to conversations I've already had with them.

10. What helps you feel stronger?

-When I daydream about telling someone about my life and how far I've come from how I used to be. I'm very proud to have brought myself through college through my own devices. I'm also proud that I've improved my social skills through introspection and daydreaming. It makes me feel more in control of my mind and actions.

11. What helps you feel safer?

- I have quite a fear of death that sometime bothers me... though it doesn't bother me as much as it used to. Nothing much makes me feel safer because you never know when it's going to happen. But if I rationalize to myself that there's nothing that I can do about it, I can usually shift my attention to some other sort of daydream. When I was in high school, though, these death fantasies were just too much for me to handle. But now, I have a little bit more control over where my mind goes, even if I can't really get out of my head. I think it used to bother me a lot more because I was so afraid of not leaving behind a legacy... when I was in high school I wanted to be a famous painter that goes down in the history books. But in the past couple years I realized that it will be okay if people 100 years from now don't know my name, because that's the usual and natural order of things. I'm supposed to eventually die and I'm supposed to fade into the background. My identity is not the most important thing about me. I'm way more important than my legacy.

12.What helps you feel more confident?

-Even though my daydream conversations/interactions can be a little draining, I do think they help me feel more confident around people. It helps me come up with things to talk about in conversations. I used to be very socially anxious... now I'm just a little socially anxious because at least I'm prepared.

[Em]

I'm always me in my daydreams. My daydreams are seamless with reality with the exception of a few elements that I change and experiment with. Sometimes, if enough time passes by, I can think that I actually had certain conversations with people.

Me: "Hey John, remember the other day when we were talking about the new David Fincher movie?

John: "Oh... I don't remember talking about that. David Fincher has a new movie coming out?"

Me (lying): " Oh... that's right. I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Jim about it. Sorry about that. I'm a little scatterbrained. But yeah Fincher has a new movie coming out. We should go see it."

msilvermane said:

Quick question for you, Cordellia, and anyone else who may feel obliged to respond. Are you ever a subject in your own daydreams? That is, do you project yourself onto a character or actually self-insert yourself into the situation you're daydreaming? Because I do not. All my daydreaming centers around fictional characters that I've created. I rarely, if ever, am an active participant in any of these fantasies, nor do I consciously project any of my traits on these characters, and if I do, I would assume its almost entirely subconscious.

I wonder what would happen if I did insert myself into one of these daydreams or dream up a scenario that I could participate in? Maybe I would be able to turn these daydreams into a visualization tool and take back some of the control I feel that has been taken away from me. Then again, I also wonder why, in all of the twenty odd years that I've been doing this, I haven't consciously thought of making myself an active participant in my own daydreams. It's like I don't want to acknowledge I exist in my own fantasy world and want to keep it exclusively to my fictional characters. Maybe it's one of the ways I am able to keep my reality and fantasy separate the way I do?

This lack of self-assertion and personalization is possibly why I had such a hard time answering the 'confident' and 'strength' questions above because the 'effects' of my daydreams are not personal as much they are just a temporary means of escape.

Hmm...

[Beth W]

I know how that feels. I am always asking people if I've told them something before, because I really just can't keep track of what I've really told someone, or what I just played out in my mind.

Em said:

I'm always me in my daydreams. My daydreams are seamless with reality with the exception of a few elements that I change and experiment with. Sometimes, if enough time passes by, I can think that I actually had certain conversations with people.

[littleschrodinger'scat]

I have recently developed a love for classical and lullaby-esque music. When I listen to it I am not exactly focusing on daydream, but I want to learn to sing and play the piano that well. Unfortunaltely, I do not have a piano, but when I sing I feel much more like I am part of reality.

Painting and drawing helps me too, that is if it turns out looking nice.

[TheMisanthrope]

I have not posted anything in a while,  but I do feel compelled to today.   I consider myself in recovery from MD , when I sense

a trigger I redirect my attention elsewhere. Why that finally started to work could only be from literally 15 years of trying to

make it work.  It is so difficult for me to read that MD is something that could be used or channeled into something

productive.

In my experience MD is an insular activity.  It isolates and inhibits creativity due to the lack of commitment to a discipline of

expression. If you are fantasizing chances are you are not writing,painting,dancing or possibly even working.  It is a quick

fix , immediate gratification, a portal to feel good chemicals in your brain because you are accessing emotions one would only

feel after an accomplishment.  I speak for myself perhaps when I say that this activity took me so far from who i am and who

I truly want to be. It's worse than drugs because the drug is always there in your brain. Until you see this behavior as

something that is more in your control than it isn't you will be a victim.  Life is hard for everyone , I asked myself what gave

me the right to check out?  I don't like self absorption in others. I won't accept it in myself either.  I know this sounds harsh

but I am bit older than some of you , I think fear is a big part of this disorder.  Fears just get worse until you confront them.I

could talk endlessly about ways I learned to kill the urges, and re-engage into existence. Please , any of you feel free to write

me , I'm not a guru , I still struggle at times for brief moments but I am so thrilled this site exists and i'm doing so well I feel

it would be a crime not to extend what I know.

[Pseudo Life]

TheMisanthrope 7

 

It is hard to stay thank you to someone who shoots straight from the hip.   I am a bit older as well, retired and very engaged in my community.  I sit on Boards of nonprofits, maintain websites, and publish a weeky newsletter on community action and social justice events.  I go to two or three events a week, engage with my grandchildren and ddaughter, read a lot of nonfiction, read Scientific America, watch a small amount of television - usually documentaries.   And yes I daydream, and I can see how daydreaming can consume your life.  Some people are genetically predisposed to being a alcolic (heck I can't even spell it); others can have a scotch every night or so and that is it.   

 

I do think daydream is like drinking, excessive is not healthy, the occasional social drinker is okay.  I think it is the same with watching television. One can spend the whole evening watching mindless television or have the ability to pick and choose what is interesting. 

 

Sometimes daydreaming saves my day - at times I think it saves my life.  But I believe one has to be carreful not to slip into another world so reality becomes confused.  There are a number of ways to do that.  Amount of time is really important.  On a bad day when I feeel like I would like to spend the entire day in bed daydreraming, I use a timer.  20 minutes up and doing something; 20 minutes day dreaming.  Or whatever works to get you up.  I set self-healing activities.  I do not stay in my house longer than 2 days straight.  I walk the dog every day for 30 minutes.  and so on.  And I track what things trigger excessive daydreaming.  Conflicts with my husband and daughter, self-pity, etc.   

 

Try Optimismapp.com  and it may help.

 

 

[Rashomon Effect]

I agree with your feelings about people speaking of MD as a "gift" or positive aspect of their lives.  The unfortunate reality is that most psychologist and psychiatrist don't consider MD curable. There may be some who do, but the vast majority feel it is a condition formed in early childhood and the pathways carved into the brain are too deep to reroute. Nine out of ten will suggest accepting the condition because they consider the possible frustration of trying and failing to overcome this pattern of brain function will cause depression and anxiety.

People who want to overcome being controlled by MD are able to, in time, by persistence. Even the most severe mental illness  lessens in severity as the person gets older.  Severely mentally ill people may never improve to a point that they can function normally, but many people who were hindered from reaching their full potential by mild to moderate conditions are able to overcome them as adults.

Different things work for different people and they have to keep trying.  They will eventually recognize what works best for them.

TheMisanthrope said:

I have not posted anything in a while,  but I do feel compelled to today.   I consider myself in recovery from MD , when I sense

a trigger I redirect my attention elsewhere. Why that finally started to work could only be from literally 15 years of trying to

make it work.  It is so difficult for me to read that MD is something that could be used or channeled into something

productive.

In my experience MD is an insular activity.  It isolates and inhibits creativity due to the lack of commitment to a discipline of

expression. If you are fantasizing chances are you are not writing,painting,dancing or possibly even working.  It is a quick

fix , immediate gratification, a portal to feel good chemicals in your brain because you are accessing emotions one would only

feel after an accomplishment.  I speak for myself perhaps when I say that this activity took me so far from who i am and who

I truly want to be. It's worse than drugs because the drug is always there in your brain. Until you see this behavior as

something that is more in your control than it isn't you will be a victim.  Life is hard for everyone , I asked myself what gave

me the right to check out?  I don't like self absorption in others. I won't accept it in myself either.  I know this sounds harsh

but I am bit older than some of you , I think fear is a big part of this disorder.  Fears just get worse until you confront them.I

could talk endlessly about ways I learned to kill the urges, and re-engage into existence. Please , any of you feel free to write

me , I'm not a guru , I still struggle at times for brief moments but I am so thrilled this site exists and i'm doing so well I feel

it would be a crime not to extend what I know.

[Cordellia Amethyste Rose]

Actually, for the record, most psychiatrists have never heard of MD.  It's only been studied a few times ever.  It's too soon to say if there's a cure or not.  It's up to us pioneers to figure that out.