Is it incorrect to recognize Maladaptive Daydreaming as a psychological disorder?

[Yukia]

To those of you who believe in what the title says or similar, I want to hear your arguments in the comments.

The activity on this forum is slow and I understand this is a long shot. Plus the majority of my target audience doesn't even have an account here, but I want to try anyway.

None of it means that those who support the idea (edit: that recognizing MD as a disorder is correct) cannot comment. My personal opinion is that MD is closer to being a syndrome rather than a disorder, for example, but it still must be recognized to stop others from confusing it with schizophrenia or just a creative personality.

Thoughts?

[Alison]

Hi Nice to see you here again.

I definitely agree that it's a symptom that usually occurs along with other mental issues (like depression, anxiety disorder, trauma, etc.) as a sort of escapism. 

However, I'd defo want it to be recognized as a disorder, because it is a pretty unique thing that changes the person's world perception and behavior. I mean, it's not like it's a normal thing to do to pace around the house for hours imagining another world in your head. Or the fact that some people can't just stop doing it and as a result it becomes an addiction. 

I think that also makes a point here that many addictions often also go along with other issues (many depressed people try to lose themselves in drugs or alcohol, for example), yet those addictions are considered a separate issue. With MD it also feels like that, I remember when I was younger, I could lose myself in daydreams so much that I stopped really noticing the reality.

[Yukia]

Oopsie just noticed that my second to last paragraph isn't very clear. I made an edit to clarify one bit.

Thanks, Alison. And I agree with many points you made. It sure isn't normal how much time it also takes to pace around fantasizing about various scenarios. Also the hyper-fixation on particular scenes until you get them right, which is the reason people with MD are struggling with being productive as well as creative. It will never be "right" or exactly as you imagined it when you put it in words or a drawing, or it will be simply too much and easier to fantasize about than trying to execute.

That's the hyper-fixation and repetition that makes me wonder. From personal experience, I know it can be used to achieve total satisfaction—not necessarily to get a scene right. Just pure hedonistic joy from imagining a concept. It's like most people are sometimes listening to the favorite part of a song over and over, but MD never takes over them. I was thinking about this—and maybe it is just me being stingy with words and how we classify things—but doesn't that make MD an addiction at most?

I think the term "disorder" slightly misrepresents MD. I'm conscious of making it sound as if I'm saying that classifying MD as a disorder makes MD more serious than it is, which is the opposite of my stance on it.

When you say:

I think that also makes a point here that many addictions often also go along with other issues (many depressed people try to lose themselves in drugs or alcohol, for example), yet those addictions are considered a separate issue.

It makes me believe even more that MD is an addiction, and should be studied/recognized as one. There will likely be a disorder hiding behind it somewhere. I know that not all people are pure like that, but still, having a harmful addiction is usually a way of your mind to tell you something ins't right. You weren't getting enough of something vital to the point where a lack of it became painful, so you resort to masking that pain.

Thanks for reading this far!

[Rachel]

Hi Yukia, you should come to chat soon!

How are you defining "syndrome"? I thought syndrome and disorder were nearly synonyms.

I have mixed feelings about this. For me, I think it's primarily escapism, because I've noticed that my daydreaming gets better at certain times in life and worse at certain times in life. I could see how it could be argued that MD is a symptom of something else, and that something else may vary from person to person (OCD, autism, PTSD, ADHD, etc.), and that could be one reason why many people with MD have such different experiences.

On the other hand, I can think about how when MD was at its peak for me, it felt very much like THE biggest symptom -- not like a symptom of some other bigger problem. It very much felt like THE problem to me. I think for me, it was originally caused by trauma and just being in general unhappy with reality and needing to escape.

Also apologies if this response is only half-way coherent lol.

[Yukia]

Hi Rachel, cool to see you again. Hope I can hop in there soon.

Funnily enough, I learned the difference between the two after watching a cooking video. It's quite important. Syndrome (like IBS) is a group of people who share the same symptoms that affect their quality of life, but when they get tested, they simply don't have any diseases that we know of. A syndrome can't be diagnosed like a disease or a disorder because it is not as defined or researched, therefore cannot be tested.

All that means doctors can't even tell what causes those symptoms. Years go by and some people with IBS turn out to have a gut disease, but many others don't, and still have no idea what is causing it. Their digestive system can get extremely upset even by simply inhaling pollen. Yet there is very little research on it.

Of course, IBS isn't an obsession like MD. Someone with MD, no matter how difficult it is for them, can summon their will and choose not to waste precious time daydreaming—this is important to recognize, I feel. At the same time, someone with IBS is pretty much forever debuffed by a dysfunctional gut, which is physically limiting. There is no "maybe not today" there, it can hit you anywhere, anytime even if you're simply breathing a slightly different air. It also can occur randomly at any age regardless of your genetics.

I hope that clears it up a bit on why I think MD is a syndrome or an addiction at most.

Your reply was absolutely coherent, don't worry about it. I thought about what you said on MD being the biggest symptom aka the problem, and to me that means that there are definitely serious underlying issues in the foundation of MD that peaks and takes up 6-8 hours of your day (is that what you meant?). Given that we still chose to dedicate so much time to it while being aware of other responsibilities and felt like poo afterwards every time, MD sure isn't laziness, although it is a form of procrastination.

[Jessica Ballantyne]

I feel sad that I didn't speak with a special therapist in advance when I was a kid. If I hadn't messed around with maladaptive daydreaming, my life would've been Ok. I probably would've been happier, and better off. I feel like I practically have to rebuild myself. It's just so dispiriting. I lost out on many opportunties. 

[Yukia]

I reckon if you have symptoms that show up as MD or along MD, parents should be the ones who take you to a special therapist. Kids don't know any better and that's why so many of us still have it. It's crazy how MD becomes a huge part of your brain chemistry so quick, or more like so slow, but also unnoticeable by you until you're hit by a bus of consequences later in life.

[Jessica Ballantyne]

You're right. As a kid, I didn't even have a concept of the real world. Being 12 then, MD felt so amazing and wonderful. I had no inclination of the power it would have over my brain. In a way, Yes I did get struck with a bus of consequences in my adulthood. 

Anyway, I just started talking to a social worker, psychotherapist about my anxiety and communication. I have yet to mention that I also daydream.

[Martino]

Hello Yukia, in my humble opinion is more a mental disturb because it affects your mind and your perception of reality in very specific way (I recognize myself in many other members MD issue) and the differences between person to person are, in my opinion, very few.

[Yukia]

Hi Martino. Thanks for commenting.

I partially agree with what you said because MD indeed changes our relationship with reality. What I'm unsure about is whether the differences between person to person are really few. That requires more research on the topic, especially among adult MDers, but that is scarce unfortunately. I believe that MDers are very diverse in ways how they can be triggered and in the nature of their dreams and what they are making up for by fantasizing, and how they hide it (if at all). But I could be as good as wrong.

[Martino]

Hello Yukia, you're welcome, at this point let's hope that the studies could proceed as fast as possible about MDD

[Jessica Ballantyne]

I started out thinking I was Ok as a person, but was aware that I was quite a daydreamer. I was content with myself, and being someone who wondered seemed naturally who I was. I took no regard that I'd have many problems down the road with career success and friends/relationships. However, I was oddly out of place, and didn't seem to fit in with other kids. When I grew up, it appeared more clear and apparent that something wasn't right about me. People around me criticized to a great degree that I wasn't with them, didn't speak, and seemed awfully deaf. Also in my appearance, I came off a bit hostile with an attitude, because I was shy and quiet, and look friendly, even smart. Despite this, I was complacent and hopeful that my life will be alright, and I'd still make friends and experience relationships with people. I was wrong. I didn't see the flip side of the coin. The criticisms kept on coming by just about everyone, including family and former friends. Nothing that I wanted came true, probably because I didn't speak up or I had to work hard for it. Now I don't have my own house and things, no friends, no partner, no achievements, nothing. I come to the conclusion I was so busy daydreaming, I didn't make sure all that came into play. Now I have to rebuild my life. So I'm kind of blue. 

[Yukia]

> The criticisms kept on coming by just about everyone, including family and former friends.

That's very interesting you mention it because it's similar to my experience. Everything seems to end up the same way no matter what you do. I suspect NDP in my case though, and want to get checked for it with a professional. And of course happy to hear you're rebuilding your life. Any change is good as long as it is a change. 

Off-topic, but can anyone have their own house in this economy? :D Everyone I know is either renting or had to sacrifice the best years of their life saving up for a tiny apartment on the ground floor. It's not all people, sure, only my one-sided observation so far. Still don't think not owning a house is your or MD's fault.