Strength and Honour.

[Ipod]

I've been reading a book written by the Roman Emperor, Marcus Aurelius. (The old man from Gladiator). Marcus was practitioner of an ancient philosophy called Stoicism. He wrote the book to himself as a set of maxims and philosophical arguments, so that he could be a better person in his day to day life. I know I shouldn't preach philosophy and religion, but if you're going to get any kind of CBT or REBT you will be practicing a kind of stoicism (as these therapies were heavily influenced by stoicism). And, anyway it's more common sense than anything. 

The message of the book is simple and powerful. We are all here for a very short time.... We can't mess around. Our actions and personalities are coloured by our thoughts, so we need try to reign over the only thing that is rightfully ours....... our mind. Direct your goals towards the common interest, and don't be down if things don't pan out like you plan. Be flexible, be hardworking, be cheerful, go with the flow. 

Perhaps most relevant to this site; Selfish, conceited or egotistical thoughts are based on us being able to control what we cannot...... other peoples perceptions of us. We have no control over peoples perceptions, so evil thoughts will ultimately bring us pain.-----Are your daydreams about yourself being a lead character in a drama where everyone thinks you're amazing?

BTW, I strongly suggest that if you do receive therapy, don't go throwing prozac down your throat until you've tried to work out the problem for yourself, or speak to a counsellor who advises similarly.  

I've been daydreaming since I can remember, but recently I've been trying to apply rational principles to my life, and I've felt a lot more positive and relaxed. I've got a long way to go, and perhaps I will never stop daydreaming. But I've tasted what it's like to be alive, and I want more.

[Ipod]

It seems like a lot of human unhappiness is caused by confusion. We get confused about what is in our control and what isn't. Outside events, what happens to us, our reputation, our possessions and body are not in our control.  You may think you have some or total control over some things like possessions or body, but you don't; they can go at any time.

Because a lot of people (me included) tend to project their happiness onto things outside of their control, when things don't go well or they aren't leading the kind of life they aspire to, they become unhappy. I think self indulgent day dreaming is a mechanism which we use to deal with this problem. It fulfils the desires we have about the outside world. And in turn it creates a hopelessness, as our dream world contrasts to the real world. We feel guilty about it, creating a vicious circle.

We only control what we perceive, our opinions and our actions. We can act in a way that we may want to cause the best possible outcome, but we have insufficient information. So our projected best outcome is never going exactly as we planned or anyway near the way we planned. It's best therefore, to keep light, don't be afraid to fail, realise that anything worth doing is going to meet with obstacles.  

This idea, I think, is key to mending some of the problems with day dreaming. 

We only control what we perceive, our opinions and our actions. If you truly believe that and you live by that, you will become invincible. You will never lose, never be surprised about what happens to you, be flexible, cheerful, self controlled, determined, brave, altruistic and you will have peace of mind. You will also be naturally inclined to socialise and form relationships.

This, of course is impossible. Only a Jedi or a Vulcan can be that controlled. But if there's something in life pursuing, isn't it to be a bit more like a Jedi? And I think in our situation such a pursuit can only be good. 

I think its really important not to beat yourself up about daydreaming. Imagination is what makes us (as humans) special. We need it to survive, but not too much. You might meet someone and joke about it, and say you still do it sometimes (I think everyone does a little bit).

Maybe ,if you get a story in your head, you should write it down. It might help.

I used to feel like I was pretending in social situations, but I try not to now. I try and focus on what people say. I try and focus on enjoying myself. If I start to feel inadequate or guilty, I question it. Positive thoughts lead to positive actions. Imaginative people can have fun:)

I feel a bit condescending, especially as I'm still dealing with similar problems as you. But writing it down has been good. 

I'm 32 btw :)

[Eretaia]

Hey! :) Even though the content of our daydreams is different, daydreams are almost always about control and security - mine are certainly not about world domination, haha, in fact they are so neutral, but they do include emotional security and emotional control. In daydreams, you rule one aspect, I rule another. 

Speaking of difficulty forming relationships, yes, oh god, yes. Even my MDs are about forming true bonds and this is actually the main reason I want to get rid of it. I guess it's because we spend too much time in our heads, having control of emotions in ideal conditions, to the point where we lose our sense of spontaneity. In social situations, we're constantly pretending, at least I feel like this, and it's what hinder us from forming a close relationship. In order to feel true connection with someone, be it romantic or not, you need to be yourself. But how can we be ourselves when we have this dark side that is MD? In other words, one of the main things that prevents us from forming close relationships is the fact that we hide worlds within - dreams and fantasies that are part of who we are and that mirror our most desperate or most shameful of yearnings - dreams that we cannot communicate to another. Only when you let someone know you from inside out, when you let them know your true-self, will you be able to surrender yourself to another. But as long as we feel that we're actually hiding a part of ourselves, as long as we feel that there's something unsaid, that there's a dark side in us, we won't be able to relate truly to another person. 

And yes, you're right, it also has a lot to do with letting go of the rigid ideals and crazy high criteria we set for ourselves. We should learn to accept spontaneity. Oh, by the way, excuse my curiosity, but can I ask how old you are?  

Oh maan, I wish I could get some psychotherapy; simply talking about all of this and venting all the mess out of my head makes me feel more alive. Once again, thanks for advice!

[Ipod]

Hey Eretaia:)

Your reply has given me a lot to think about. Maybe I assumed that everyone had the same kind of daydreams. Mine seem a bit narcissistic in comparison :( Dds of world domination :P but in the nicest possible way. Oh well, all day dreams are self absorbent at the end of the day. 

You could be the kindest person in your dream world, but there are no good or bad people, only good or bad actions. That's what I believe, anyway.

I don't think I'd mind the day dreams, (I've got an ok job, got nice friends) but I have trouble forming romantic or close relationships.... or just relating to people. And this seems to be  the case for a lot of people on this forum. 

I have started to feel a difference, though. And I think it has to do with letting go of the rigid ideals dream world enforces. Or more pointedly, viewing the real world as a running river of fate.... in constant flux.... an adventure:P 

I'm really interested in your progress... I'm sure in a months time you're going to feel more in control.... hang in there.

I've never taken prozac or gone to psychotherapy( I don't rule it out). But I've been reading a lot. And I recommend you read some Tao or Sartre or Epictetus. Real self help.........Don't read Freud. 

[Eretaia]

In fact, yes, focusing on outside world is what I'm trying to do at the moment but I still feel the enormous void which is natural; however, I feel I'm slowly starting to reawaken the feelings towards outside world and simple pleasures of life or so it seems to me at this point. They are quite faint, but I think this is the direction I should be taking. You're right, I probably sounded a bit too pessimistic in my previous post, thought it wasn't my intention. 

As for my personal case, my daydreams don't involve anything fame, power or attention related; moreover, they don't involve me at all. I couldn't care less about that. Instead, they involve fictional characters, which I believe I projected my desires onto, and it's all about simple yet sincere emotions of understanding and love and friendship, as cliche as it sounds, haha. It's not about being admired or adored or loved unconditionally - no, it's simply about having sincere and close bond with someone, be it romantic or not. On a side note, I'm not one of those people who are afraid of rejection or emotional intimacy and therefore they don't even try to make contacts or feel down if something goes wrong; my problem is that I lived in a fantasy world for so long that I never even tried pursuing such bond through myself; heck, I don't even appear in my own daydreams, I don't have an idealized version; instead, it's those characters, which are not me, who can form such bonds and I can get so happy and high off their feelings, it's actually hilarious. I'm like a parasite who feeds off their feelings. Meh.

So, what makes me happier in real life is being kind to other people, forming small friendships, offering love and getting love in return. Oddly enough, I was offered love in real life so many times but I never knew to appreciate it because I was so immersed in my dreamworld. In theory, my situation doesn't sound that impossible at all - except that I almost forgot what it's like to love outside world and remembering this is what I believe will be a key to getting out of this mind-fuckery, haha.

To be honest, it's been a whole month since listening to the music; a few days ago, I tried a few times to listen to the songs which set my imagination on fire, but without daydreaming (just like you did), and it still gives me a huge energy boost and makes me want to move, even though I'm trying actively not to daydream. Oh well. Until I've accepted some thing and sorted out the underlying cause of my daydreams, I don't expect the urge to stop.

Also, given that you mentioned Prozac, have you ever taken medications? I have never taken any, though I'd be more than glad to undergo a psychotherapy but I'm currently not able. Once again, thanks for the advice!

[Ipod]

Hey Eretia.

Thanks for the reply. 

I don't know your exact situation, but it sounds like you maybe being too hard on yourself. 

It's been said before, but if you try to concentrate on getting on in the outside world, this maybe better than just trying to suppress your daydreams. And may be counterproductive, as feelings of guilt will bring you down..... We've got nothing to feel guilty about :)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a lot of DDing stems from a desire to be accepted in the real world, but in a kind of shallow, selfish way... that's me anyway. Perhaps it's because we're taught from an early age that being famous, having loads of money and being the centre of the party are things we need to reach for in life. And if we can't get those things, we dream about having them.

But they're not the most important things. Having a clear mind, living in the present and behaving as altruistically as we can, are. Being satisfied with what we have. You can do it now and feel a wholesome good with no effort.......but it requires effort and positivity to stay on track.

I still rock music sometimes.... I'll admit that's a bit odd and too much is definitely unhealthy. But having an imagination isnt. 

Instead of having dds where I'm the lead character in a film, I've been trying to focus on images like this:

There is a world full of wonderful minds. We are all very similar, and we are all interconnected. We were made to work together. It doesn't matter if someone doesn't like me. It doesn't matter if I don't achieve fame. But it does matter that we work together. No one can stop me doing what is natural...... These are your brothers and sisters.... rejoice in them :)

I know it sounds corny, but try imagining things like this and see what happens :)

[Eretaia]

I absolutely agree with you. It's been a a month since I stopped daydreaming intentionally, though the urge still exists but I try to ignore it. And without daydreams I feel depressed - I have nothing in real world to hold onto, no one to get back to and there's nothing real to fill in the void made by daydreams, and yes, I suck at living, I suck at enjoying small things, but that's okay too; I've hit the final bottom and now I can only climb up. It feels like I'm beginning my life from zero but I still have strength left in me and feel that my life can be rebuilt. Just like you said, after long time, I'm slowly starting to remember what it's like to be alive. Naturally, I'm aware daydreams cannot be cast away simply like that; I can't negate the urge. They will linger, they were and are a huge part of me, and the urge will probably continue to exist for an indefinite period of time, but I'll do my best to sublimate and filter them. 

Thanks for your post, it was encouraging to read it, though I haven't read the book. :)